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Liam
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 424
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 Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:46 am Post subject: |
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it doesnt really matter how an effect is acheived.
as long as it is achieved and the moves are psycologically invisible then whats the problem with the methods we have now?
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Michael Kras
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Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 1310
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:13 am Post subject: |
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Spectators are not fools... they do see discrepant moves just like anybody would. Cleaner methods tend to go over a lot better and they are a lot stronger. I've sprnt quite some time researching and testing this.
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BrianMillerMagic
Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 543
Location: New York State
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:32 am Post subject: |
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If spectators can figure out how it works, I don't call it a working method. I call it bad. There are plenty of working methods for ACAAN was my point. For the record I've toyed with both Any Card at Any Number and simply A Card at Any Number, and I've seen no difference whatsoever between the two. With the right psychological touches, having a peeked at or even selected card at any number is just as impressive as having any card named. Only my thoughts.
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Huruey
Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 22
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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Issue 20 of magicseen magazine has tonnes on the holy grail, the "ACAAN". One hell of a lot of mention of "the berglas effect", also.
To be honest, I don't think there is any single holy grail in magic. Period. Every magician may find his/her own "holy grail" effects (yes, plural), but it's going to be different for everybody.
The people who spend their lives chasing after a holy grail are wasting their time, because it seems a lot of people define an effect as being a holy grail if it has no fathomable method. Of course, as soon as a method is discovered, the grail loses it's holiness. 
Huruey
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Last edited by Huruey on Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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BrianMillerMagic
Joined: 14 Aug 2007
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Michael Kras
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Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 1310
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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Very true. There really can never be a holy grail of magic, unless something is discovered that uses actual working magic (which, at this point, the only thing that comes close to real magic is the power of suggestion). However, many people release products claiming stragith out that it is the Holy Grail of magic.... there are even effects out there named Holy Grail!
If you think about it, it's not possible to find the holy grail, as I can't imagine a very powerful effect using a cup.
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Michael Kras
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Liam
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 424
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| i have to say NLP, like darren brown, is pretty close to a holy grail |
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BrianMillerMagic
Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 543
Location: New York State
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Liam wrote: | | i have to say NLP, like darren brown, is pretty close to a holy grail |
This is going to come off as rude, but it's not intended to be so: Have you studied or researched anything on NLP or Derren Brown? You might be surprised how ineffective NLP is and how little he uses "it." Derren, by and large, uses the same time tested methods as all of us mere mortals. He is, however, a brilliant showman, and hides his methods expertly, even to the extent that he's fooled so much of the magic community itself. You'll find most of Derren's methods traceable all the way back to 13 Steps to Mentalism, but again, his methods aren't what make him who he is.
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Reuben The Great
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 245
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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Yes but with ACAAN effects, the spectator basically sees this effect you named michael when we are peforming. Only WE see the peeking at cards, false cuts and such. Sort of redundant when you think about it.
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Ben Train
Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 268
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:36 am Post subject: |
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Rather then formulate an essay-like response, I'll resort to the old bullet points approach.
1. It's the problem that is of interest only. The effect is rather mundane. (John Born may disagree... but you can ask him himself when he comes in!)
2. Method DOES matter. How could it not? It's such a silly comment that I won't explain why, instead I put the onus on YOU to justify how something that LITERALLY creates the effect isn't important to the effect.
3. Derren claims not to use NLP, and has been in trouble several times for bashing it and it's supporters.
4. Mike, I can give you a method that meets ALL the requirements you layed out. But, the methods I use are better (and they don't meet your criteria).
Ben
p.s.
This was a little too civil for me, so, um, everyone can eat my nuts.
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