Michael Kras
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The Holy Grail Of MagicWhat magical occurance are you looking to see that has yet to be created, either because it hasn't been thought of or simply because a method is near impossible at this point? What would be the qualifications and specifics to make this effect the holy grail of magic?
Walking on water is, in my opinion, the perfect candidate for this. If a practical, self-contained method was developed via some sort of body gimmick, that would be the holy grail of magic.
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BrianMillerMagic
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When I finally have a practical, working method, you'll all see my personal holy grail. It's beyond a magic effect; it's a work of art. If only I could just finish it. Going on two years since the creation of the effect yet without a practical, working method. Sigh. It's getting really frustrating.
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Michael Kras
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Is that all you can say?
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Liam
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keep working on it brian!
the idea will come some day.
i think the holy grail of magic could be plenty of things
maybe a way to psycologically force someone into thinking of something just bye looking into their eyes.
that would be neat, and have limitless possiblitlys
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BrianMillerMagic
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| Michael Kras wrote: | | Is that all you can say? |
Yes.
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Michael Kras
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Ok.
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BrianMillerMagic
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Michael Kras
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Michael Kras
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Another holy grail idea.... shuffled, borrowed deck, totally clean ACAAN with no passes or controls, looking at the card faces, or second dealing. Freely named card, freely named number, immediately fair countdown.
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BrianMillerMagic
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Oh goodness - the ACAAN holy grail again. *Sigh* I'm constantly perplexed by this one, mostly because what everyone seems to discuss about this one is finding a holy grail method rather than the effect itself. There are so many ways to accomplish this effect, especially when you look at psychological ways to get the audience to remember what you want the effect to look like rather than what you actually did. It seems as though everyone is looking for a way to do ACAAN with real magic! Think about how impossible the conditions of the effect are - isn't it great that we have ways to accomplish it at all? I digress  lol
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Liam
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it doesnt really matter how an effect is acheived.
as long as it is achieved and the moves are psycologically invisible then whats the problem with the methods we have now?
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Michael Kras
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Spectators are not fools... they do see discrepant moves just like anybody would. Cleaner methods tend to go over a lot better and they are a lot stronger. I've sprnt quite some time researching and testing this.
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BrianMillerMagic
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If spectators can figure out how it works, I don't call it a working method. I call it bad. There are plenty of working methods for ACAAN was my point. For the record I've toyed with both Any Card at Any Number and simply A Card at Any Number, and I've seen no difference whatsoever between the two. With the right psychological touches, having a peeked at or even selected card at any number is just as impressive as having any card named. Only my thoughts.
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Huruey
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Issue 20 of magicseen magazine has tonnes on the holy grail, the "ACAAN". One hell of a lot of mention of "the berglas effect", also.
To be honest, I don't think there is any single holy grail in magic. Period. Every magician may find his/her own "holy grail" effects (yes, plural), but it's going to be different for everybody.
The people who spend their lives chasing after a holy grail are wasting their time, because it seems a lot of people define an effect as being a holy grail if it has no fathomable method. Of course, as soon as a method is discovered, the grail loses it's holiness. 
Huruey
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BrianMillerMagic
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Well stated indeed sir.
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Michael Kras
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Very true. There really can never be a holy grail of magic, unless something is discovered that uses actual working magic (which, at this point, the only thing that comes close to real magic is the power of suggestion). However, many people release products claiming stragith out that it is the Holy Grail of magic.... there are even effects out there named Holy Grail!
If you think about it, it's not possible to find the holy grail, as I can't imagine a very powerful effect using a cup.
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Liam
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i have to say NLP, like darren brown, is pretty close to a holy grail
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BrianMillerMagic
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| Liam wrote: | | i have to say NLP, like darren brown, is pretty close to a holy grail |
This is going to come off as rude, but it's not intended to be so: Have you studied or researched anything on NLP or Derren Brown? You might be surprised how ineffective NLP is and how little he uses "it." Derren, by and large, uses the same time tested methods as all of us mere mortals. He is, however, a brilliant showman, and hides his methods expertly, even to the extent that he's fooled so much of the magic community itself. You'll find most of Derren's methods traceable all the way back to 13 Steps to Mentalism, but again, his methods aren't what make him who he is.
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Reuben The Great
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Yes but with ACAAN effects, the spectator basically sees this effect you named michael when we are peforming. Only WE see the peeking at cards, false cuts and such. Sort of redundant when you think about it.
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Ben Train
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Rather then formulate an essay-like response, I'll resort to the old bullet points approach.
1. It's the problem that is of interest only. The effect is rather mundane. (John Born may disagree... but you can ask him himself when he comes in!)
2. Method DOES matter. How could it not? It's such a silly comment that I won't explain why, instead I put the onus on YOU to justify how something that LITERALLY creates the effect isn't important to the effect.
3. Derren claims not to use NLP, and has been in trouble several times for bashing it and it's supporters.
4. Mike, I can give you a method that meets ALL the requirements you layed out. But, the methods I use are better (and they don't meet your criteria).
Ben
p.s.
This was a little too civil for me, so, um, everyone can eat my nuts.
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Michael Kras
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Nice PS there. For a second I thought you had lost it.
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Michael Kras
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I also agree about method mattering... to be honest, I too find it a ridiculous statement. If you've got an idea for a very creative method and a completely wacky impractical method, that's not the "Holy Grail" is it?
Note: For a straightforward and very practical method example, please see my post on the Flesh and Bone Coin Vanish located in this forum;
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