| Archive for The Magicanada Project A Place For the In-Depth Discussion of Magic By Magicians Worldwide! |
| Michael Kras |
Am I Taking A Huge Risk Performing This?For my competition act oin 2009, I plan on performing Luke Jermay's Divided By Hate from his excellent book Building Blocks. However, as excited as I am to perform it, I am also nervous as to offending my audiences or possibly making those with high religious beliefs believe I am evil. In case you do not know, here is the basic idea..... In a very chilling sequence, the magician makes a beautiful live rose wilt and die by casting a shadow over it.Thoughts? |
||||||
| BrianMillerMagic |
I don't think there is any reason not to perform such an effect at a magic competition. The people who are there should understand it is a magic event, and if they are that religious then they probably wouldn't have showed up. If you are performing someone else's material however, you definitely need to find a way to make it your own. Why is the rose wilting and dying? Is there a reason you can do this or is it just to show off?
Where will you be competing? Did you mean in 2008 or are you already preparing for 2009? |
||||||
| Michael Kras |
Trust me, I have made the whole act my own. Thanks Brian! | ||||||
| BrianMillerMagic |
Good to hear. Which competitions are you planning on entering? Also, are you doing so in 2008 or 2009? | ||||||
| Michael Kras |
In fact, my whole act is a flowing routine consisting of Luke Jermay material. Brian,. could I please PM you mny written act and get your opiniom? | ||||||
| Michael Kras |
And the competition is the CAM 2009. | ||||||
| Wolflock |
There is nothing to be afraid of. I do bizzarre magic and have people wanting to burn me at the stake all the time. The things is to make it known before you perform that this is strictly illusion and not in any way connected to any religion. Also make it clear that if any feel that this act might question their belief or think it bad in any way, are allowed to leave or else try to have an open mind. In my shows, I have had people leave due to religious reasons, only to return on another night due to word of mouth and curiosity. Remember that even bad publicity can be good publicity.
Regards Wolflock |
||||||
| Gary Dickson |
That's one angle but there are others. I use religious stories and ideas in my mentalism act. I make it clear I'm a Buddhist and have no reservations or compunctions about using Buddhist themes. This whole idea of not offending people is a little bit wet, in my opinion. If somebody gets offended the problem is entirely theirs, the problem is their own rigid views and lack of open mindedness. How are we to determine what someone will find offensive? You can't. You will offend some people. The question for me is this: am I prepared to water down my act, water down myself, in order to make me more likeable? No, I am not. I am who I am, you don't have to like it. If your religious convictions make you offended if a religious story or idea is used to frame an effect then you either need to loosen your views or not go and see something which might offend. If you, as a performer, have respect for others there is nothing unethical in using religious concepts in your act. My aim as a performer is to provide a magical experience that does challenge one's perception of reality. I will use anything at my disposal, including ideas from all religions and philosophies, in order to do so. My aim is not to offend, so if someone gets offended the issue is theirs, not mine. love Gary x ps. why is there a bloody great advert in my signature? I am not affiliated with the company in question in any way, just so you know that. |
||||||
| Liam |
there is always an ad in the last post, dont know why
and saying that being offended is always the persons fault is true in a way, but not one that really makes sence if you have offensive material in your act thats partially your fault. Really, all material is probably offensive in some way so you cant take out all of the possible offenses. But if you do something claiming to be bigger then jesus or just blatantly mock a religion then you are asking for it. |
||||||
| Gary Dickson |
If it is true, then why doesn't it make sense? What one person considers offensive, another considers funny. In reality there is no such thing as offensive material. Being offended is not something that happens to us but something we do with our minds. We decide whether we will find something offensive. History is littered with people who were 'offensive': Caravaggio, Galileo, Oscar Wilde, Lenny Bruce, Mozart, The Sex Pistols. I'm sure there are many others. In this day and age we live in fear, perpetuated largely by the media. We can't offend people in case they get angry, in case they blow us up! This is a ludicrous state of affairs. What is wrong in mocking a religion? Nothing. And what, exactly, am I asking for if I mock a religion? There are certain aspects of all religions that need mocking, including my own (I'm a Buddhist, in case you were interested). If we want to bring this into an ethical dimension then the question we must ask ourselves is not 'will someone find this offensive?', because you can be sure that someone, somewhere will find what ever it is offensive. The question we must ask ourselves is this: what are my motivations behind this action? What are my intentions in saying this? We have no control over how people will respond to us. Some people find the act of performing magic offensive. Are we to stop performing in order to appease them? The only thing we have control over are our own minds, and even then most of the time we don't have control over that! My base for including material in my act is not whether people will approve of it (although I hope they do!) but my motivations for including it. As my intentions are not to induce negative states in other people, as my intentions are not to 'offend' I have no problem in including whatever I see fit. I will not be told, by anyone, what I can and can't say. People don't have to like what I do, and if what I do angers them then the problem is entirely theirs. It's their mind, after all. I cannot, and will not, take responsibility for another person's narrow mindedness. You may not agree, which is fine. It's your prerogative after all. But consider this: are you actually doing anyone any favours by pandering to their own reactivity? I don't think so. love Gary x |
||||||
| Liam |
my point was supposed to be that everything is offensive to someone so unless there is a reason for doing something, dont do it. Dont say christians are misenterpreting the bible just to piss off christians. Say it with a reason. Being offended is natural and without it we would all just be doormats. But some people are offended for no reason |
||||||
| Gary Dickson |
How old are you, Liam? | ||||||
| Liam |
what a relevant question!
do you have any pets at home? and i agree we shouldnt change our routines i just dont think we shouldnt care about offending people. Magicians are entertainers... we should care about peoples feelings, even if they are irrational. And I agree everything will insult someone, but somethings should insult everyone and personally i avoid those things Speaking of avoiding, lets avoid this turning into an arguement 
|
||||||
| Michael Kras |
A large part of performing magic is taking risks.... pulling off risky sleights, using risky presentations, performing new untested effects in public for the first time... I don't see why this sort of idea is exempt. If some people do not like it or find it offensive, they have to get over themselves and loosen up. To me, being offended is the "offended" person's whole fault. Why MUST there be such a feeling? I for one am not offended by ANYTHING. I'm sensitive toward certain issues, sure, but I'm not at all full-out offended by anything. I like being that way. To me, being offended is just whining and crying, attracting attention, or letting a small feeling of dislike evolve into a huge issue that could potentially mean big trouble for "the offender". If offensive issues were not tolerable, they wouldn't exist. | ||||||
| BrianMillerMagic |
Once again you're missing the point that both "offensiveness" and "entertainment" are subjective terms - they only gain meaning with perception. People need to loosen up; if they're going to see an entertainer, they must accept the fact that something they believe in or enjoy might be made fun of. If you are an entertainer who prefers to have his material really say something to the audience, then you cannot worry about people's feelings because you'd have no material to perform. There are certain things in this world that I personally believe people take entirely too seriously for their own good, and those things I make fun of quite a bit - religion is one of them. I'm not alone - probably 99% of working stand up comics take on religion and a number of these other huge issues, and somehow they're doing just fine for themselves. |
||||||
| Liam |
im not saying you have to avoid offensive things.
but personally, i wouldnt do an oil and water trick with patter about white supremacy. I agree that people are offended to easily, but i dont see that as any sort of justification for being offesive |
||||||
| Gary Dickson |
You are correct, it is an entirely relevant question. In my experience communicating online with young people is a frustrating and pointless excercise. I ask your age because if you turn out to be 15 or 16 I'm not interested in continuing this discussion with you. I'm 36 years old and have two cats. If this offends you, well... The reason I ask your age, and I note you did not answer, is because you appear to be contradicting yourself. In the same post. Not only that, but you actually appear to be agreeing with what I am saying. To me this indicates you have not actually thought about the issues at hand and are saying what you think is the right thing. For example:
Ring any bells? Let me remind you.
Are you not agreeing with me here? Are we not, in fact, saying the same thing? There is a vast difference in acting in a way that offends people and intentionally doing so. Yes, if your aim is to piss off christians, as you so eloquently put it, then your motives are unethical. But if your motive is to entertain, and in the process christians get offended then you have nothing to worry about. One more thing: I thought we were having a discussion, not an argument. Oh, and Brian, I think you meant subjective! |
||||||
| BrianMillerMagic |
Haha right are you Gary; I'm not sure why I wrote 'objective' there. I've made an edit to it now. | ||||||
| Gary Dickson |
Well, I know how it can be in the heat of the moment!
|
||||||
| Liam |
the only point i really disagree about is this
The problem is not always entirely theirs. Had you not said anything, their would be no problem there for you have done something to insult them. Sure, some people will be insulted by anything, but if your whole audience is offended and you dont care you are just being ignorant. "Why dont people like your magic show?" "I dont know, i'm doing nothing wrong.... its entirely their fault" |
||||||
| Gary Dickson |
You are, of course, perfectly within your rights to think whatever you like.
For the record, I am not ignorant in the sense of being uninformed or of being rude. As far as I am aware I have not actually offended anyone with my mentalism show which contains some hardcore Buddhist teachings as well as an old Judaeo_Christian story that doesn't paint 'God' in a good light! But if they were to get offended, I would have to ask what they were doing there in the first place. Anywho - I think I have gone as far as I will in this discussion so I will take my leave of you. Adios Gary |
||||||
| Michael Kras |
Hey, some of these special types of people, I have no doubt, would see a show with potentially offensive undertones just to bash it and spread negative energy. | ||||||
| Liam |
well that was a good discussion... its nice to have a new member who is obivously intelligent, and sticks with his beliefs | ||||||
| LIVR |
To paraphrase a prominent mentalist with unusual hair...
You are performing in the context of *entertainment*. If someone decides to interpret what you're doing as belonging in a place of worship, the fault is clearly theirs. Now that doesn't mean that you shouldn't use your head. There are districts in the USA so stupid that they are actually trying to have creation myths taught in science classes, so there you might want to reign in your material, but Canadian magic contest... nah! That also doesn't mean you shouldn't rethink your choice of material for the competition. My experience is that these contests are heavily biased in favour of comedic performers. Doing a trick in which you do a bunch of mentalism then kill a rose is not exactly the quickest route to victory. |
||||||
| Michael Kras |
Unfortunately, a lot of Americans probably wouldn't catch on to offensive material. I can't tell you how many times I've seen that blockhead Criss Angel unknowingly call 9/11 a travesty. Even worse still, I see no americans catching onto this! | ||||||
| teddy |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPyweIhllVs |
||||||
| Michael Kras |
It's hilarious, in a sad way. | ||||||